De La Soul Reflect on Trugoy & The Group’s First Album Without Him During Late-Night Visit to the Billboard Office

Somehow, after a long day of interviews, roll-outs, and conversations surrounding the group’s new album Cabin In The Sky, De La Soul pulls up to the Billboard office ready to party.

It’s pitch black outside, the office is completely empty after a long workday, but Kelvin “Posdnuos” Mercer and Vincent “Maseo” Mason are bursting at the seams with energy and excitement surrounding their first album in nine years.

Cabin In The Sky, which drops Friday (Nov. 21), is De La’s first album without David “Trugoy the Dove” Jolicoeur, who passed away unexpectedly in 2023. The resulting 20 songs are a perfect encapsulation of what makes De La such a legendary group. The playful banter, eclectic samples (including one from Boston’s “More Than a Feeling”), and reflective wisdom are all on display.

The New York rappers were approached by Nas and Mass Appeal at the top of the year to create a new record as part of the label’s “Legend Has It” series — which, throughout 2025, has included releases from Raekwon, Mobb Deep, Ghostface Killah, Big L, and more veteran greats. De La was hard at work on its Premium Soul On The Rocks project at the time, an EP produced by DJ Premier that was technically announced back in 2014 but never came to fruition. De La decided a new album was a necessary and fitting challenge for the group, whose last proper release was and the Anonymous Nobody back in 2016.

Below, De La chats about the late Trugoy the Dove, the role of the algorithm, and how important it is to still have an album rollout in 2025.

I kinda want to start off by just talking about the last two years you guys have had. The situation with Tommy Boy Records is finally resolved, De La is on streaming, everyone was celebrating you and your cultural impact again. You’re now about to release your first album in nine years. Is there any sort of overwhelming feeling happening at this moment?

Pos: I’m feeling absolutely beautiful. I’m really happy and proud of this album, proud of all we’ve accomplished. When you get to that finish line and you’ve realized things that you’ve had in your mind are now manifested — and I feel strongly about this album obviously because it’s the first album we’ve done without Dave — but it’s here in the physical and I can say without question [Dave] is here, his spirit, his energy, it’s very much a part of this album. Anything that he had placed in certain songs that we chose to use, all of that is felt. In that regard alone, that’s a success. But I really, really feel like De La fans are going to love this album.

Going off that, “The Package” has a all the joyful sprinklings of a classic De La Soul record. To lean back into that playfulness, especially after the loss of Dave, feels very intentional to me. What was it like revisiting that playfulness without Dave around?

Maseo: That’s something that naturally just exists within us.

Pos: We’re big kids!

Maseo: It’s not like we try to channel some shit, it’s what already exists in the people that we are. We done have moments today where we bug out.

Pos: I’ve always had no problem saying that there aren’t a lot of artists that are like that. You know, cameras on, mean face, muscles, references to the street, but then when you get off the cam they’re the funniest, most hilarious people you ever want to meet. But we just never, us being who we were, that was a part of our mold.

Maseo: And in their defense I think it’s just being guarded based on how this industry has treated us. You keep your radar up for the bulls—t.

Your colorful cover art over the years has really set the tone for your albums in that way. Other rappers relied on machismo and grimier art when you guys first came out, but De La chose these kaleidoscopic colors and unique designs. The cover for Cabin In The Sky is no different. How important is the role of cover art in making your music?

Pos: The role of cover art is very important. It was almost like the microphone for us, like, “C’mon everybody, gather around.” At the time, 3 Feet High and Rising came out it really stood out because of that, but that wasn’t the particular thought process going into this. We just knew that in the title being what it was we were like, “Well we see a sky! Feel like a sky should be involved.” Then what was in that sky was what we tweaked and figured out.

So what was in the sky? What does it mean to have a Cabin in the Sky?

Pos: It plays off our own partner who has transitioned and where he is. You know, as I explained in the title track, “Does he have his cabin? How many acres did he get?” If you did really well, took care of yourself, helped others, do you get more acreage with his cabin? So it’s like, your mansion or your home in the sky in heaven. But as Mace would say, joy and pain, there’s a lot of therapy in that album. How we touched on Dave and what we feel and how we feel he should feel and also just this album in general, man. It felt like Dave was working with us from heaven. So that’s how it is. It’s like, I could speak about him and you know the next song is him. He’s very much a part of this album and I think it’s just beautiful.

Scattered throughout the album you rap a lot of turns of phrase that feel like you got them from your therapist. Like “Talk less, listen more.”

Pos: I can’t even tell you when I wrote that. I just know at times that’s how I write it. Like someone could just say something like, “Yo, y’all need to like, something something.”

I definitely [embody that phrase]. And I do feel like a lot of times I’ve said it in other parts of the record. In that song “Sunny Storms” I say something like, “..As we got older, we talk healthier, loud attitude, crave to be stealthier.” And I just mean that, like, wisdom usually calms you down. The volume goes down with wisdom. You observe more and take more in as a teacher, as opposed to when you’re ignorant, your mouth is always open. So I think that’s where I’m really coming from. Sometimes you gotta —

Mase: You gotta listen the f—k up.

Pos: And shut the f—k up.

But there are moments on this album where you almost flex that wisdom like you would money or cars or something. How important was it to strike that balance of, “Hey, we’re still out here and we’re competitive in this thing called hip-hop” but at the same time…

Pos: Lyrics always meant a lot, whether it was being creative with it, whether it’s being within the act of lyricism. A lot of that always felt like a natural play for me. People who I get inspiration they think of it the same way. Yasiin Bey, Talib Kweli, Common, Black Thought, those are dudes that figured out a way to express yourself but express yourself within this cannon of rhymes. They don’t gotta be super big words, but just figuring out cool words to say something? For me it was kinda like, “Wow, wait, I went there? That’s dope!”

Mase: Leos have the ability to do s—t right. *laughs*

Pos: Yeah, like when I listen [to these songs] and think about it I’m like, “Yeah, I pulled that one off!” Well, well. But yeah, it’s always important for us to —

Mase: F—kin’ Leos man!

Pos: Yes, yes. Like earlier in our career we definitely were leaning more into our creativity. I was leaning more into like, depth.

Tell me about “A Quick 16 for Mama” and what it felt like having to write such condensed bars about your mothers. Feels like an impossible task to just keep the love to 16 lines.

Pos: When I heard the sample saying, “Mama taught you one thing, you gotta hustle for it.” And I just remember right after I got it, I hit Mase and, like — obviously there’s so much you can say about your mother. But I almost looked at it as a comedic thing. Like, “Why don’t I name it “A Quick 16 for Mama?” Because who could really say 16 lines about your mother? You could write a whole album about your mother. So I thought it would be cool to express more, but Mase was like, “Nah! It can only be 16.”

Why 16?

Pos: Cause normally in music you’re writing a 16 bar rhyme or 24 bar rhyme, especially these days.

Mase: You gotta hold the attention span.

Pos: To keep a song under like, two minutes and change, you gotta be able to be like, “Ok, you do 16 and I do 16, or you do 24 and I do 12,” to stay within the three minute range of time. So I just thought it would be cool, and Mase was like, “You got yours?” Then Killer Mike was like, “Nah, I got 24” and [Mase] was like, “That’s too much! We said 16!” But then of course, when the rhymes are being said, you can feel the warmth and love that’s being said for our mothers, who are both no longer here.

It’s interesting you brought up attention spans. Now that you guys are on streaming and a part of this algorithmic ecosystem, do you guys feel pressured at all to play that game?

Mase: No, I don’t care. I just don’t care.

Pos: I agree with him. We don’t even come from the era of understanding — not that we don’t understand the algorithm — but the creative aspect doesn’t even care about that. It’s about getting that point across, and I’m just being honest. Mass, Appeal when we told ’em we were doing this album was like, “Oh, you got 10 songs? Cool, let’s go.” And it was like, “Nah, we have to let this album take it where it needs to go,” which ended up being 20 songs.

Mase: As an artist, I don’t care about the algorithm. As a DJ? It’s a battle.

The algorithm is actually dictating what music should be played out in the world. Who the f—k is the algorithm? What party have you DJed, algorithm? What party have you ever, DJed algorithm? You know what I mean? What radio station have you ever worked for, algorithm?

Pos: You do realize Mack is not the algorithm. [Laughs.]

I’m on your side, Mase! But what does that battle look like then from your perspective?

Mase: My pushback is to be where the algorithm is, and challenge it by playing music. By playing music hoping that the algorithm will follow my lead and every other DJ’s lead. The only way you can change what’s happening is to go on the same platform and press upon it as well. So this is where, in my own mind, I just created a battle. To knowing that’s what we’ve been up against, that’s been dictating music here.

Pos: I’m just trying to use this as debate, but when we came out it was obviously different then the older generation before us. You know, they could be like, “It’s about vinyl” and we could be like, “Nah, you know it’s about cassettes and CD’s.”

Mase: “But it’s about cassettes and soundsystems and boom boxes!”

Pos: So we get it, but it’s important as artists for us to express what we feel — and that’s always been a great challenge, to have [our publicst] Tony sitting, [Mass Appeal marketing exec] Al Lindstrom sitting here, and they have to figure out, “OK, how can we help De La’s art be played and heard this time?” That’s the business person, no different than it was when we came out with 3 Feet High and Rising. Nothing like that had been done before, and it was pressed upon Tommy Boy to figure out, “Okay, how can we make sure this record next to LL Cool J gets played?” And you figure it out, how to walk that balance and make it be heard.

Are you seeing any cultural similarities between when you came out with 3 Feet High and Rising versus now?

Pos: I think there’s more freedom and more places for your album to be heard. I know what it was to be with Dante Ross and walk up into the radio stations, and you see this DJ who you’ve listened to all your life — but he has this look like, “You know if I don’t like this I’m gonna break this record in front of you?” It’s different because you were scared! Like, “OK, I’m in New York, my record gotta be played on the hottest radio station!” Whereas now, you can live in the universe of SoundCloud and live there forever.

And I think that’s amazing, that you have artists that have three million [listeners] and I’ve never heard them in my life! We’re just so curious to understand it, and I think that’s so beautiful about music. The freedom of that.

Mase: We just feel like certain things should still apply. When it comes to artists putting out music, especially if they’re part of some sort of establishment, the traditional marketing and promotion still exists. Like you gotta get out and touch some people.

The Clipse and Cardi B showed that this year too, that the classic rollout still works.

Mase: Yeah! They were all like, “Yo, did you see the rollout for the Clipse?” Like as far as we know, it’s just a rollout!

It’s just a regular rollout!

Pos: I was like…it looks like they’re just doing a rollout!

Mase: Like you mean you don’t go outside?

Pos: Like, “Oh, they’re promoting their album?”

It just says a lot about the state of things when a regular album roll out gets such a big and unusual reaction.

Pos: Yeah! Like, I love JID’s album, but I ain’t seen him nowhere! You know what I’m sayin’?

He did get a Grammy nom off of it!

Pos: Well that’s great, but God d–n, I ain’t seen him nowhere! I was waiting to see him. So I can hear him talk about it. I ain’t see him nowhere! So that’s what I’m sayin’ is, like — the [roll outs], that’s what we know. That’s what we love. I just truly feel like it does make a difference. I understand with technology it can be — but like, talking to you over a Zoom call? C’mon man. You gotta see each other, talk to each other.

It’s great that it can work for you though. I’d love to teleport to Greece or somewhere and talk to someone, but Zoom, it works. It’s better than the days of us just sitting on a phone call with static, but in person is just amazing.

A lot of De La Soul’s skits are as famous as your songs. You got some new skits on this album, but I’m curious why you think skits have kinda fallen by the wayside in hip-hop?

Pos: A lot of times skits for us can be a song. Like “Talkin’ Bout Hey Love” off De La Soul Is Dead is a skit, but it’s music, there’s singing, talking but rhyming. We’ve always embraced it but, yeah, I don’t know.

Mase: I think just the consumption of music, no one really listens to projects like that anymore. It became, “My song, my song.” Even when you had the opportunity to go cop an album, like, okay, let’s be real in this aspect. A lot of artists started putting out s–tty albums too. So they made the fan feel like, “Why should I go buy the whole f—king album when I can just get the song I like and put it on my own f—king playlist of s—t that I f—k with? So then the body of work goes out the window. Especially when you have more artists not really living up to the project and the perception of the project.

So it teetered back and forth. The fan was feeling cheated and the artist is given a f—ked up perception. Then you got the artists who want to make a great body of work caught up in this shuffle.

Pos: Then the attention span thing! And a couple of people — actually, I’d be lying if I said a couple of people — but a lot of people are also doing s—tty skits.

A lot of ’em are, like, arguments with your girl now. Where she’s just like, “You went out with who?”

Pos: Right? Then it’s like, on to the next song where it’s like, “Makin’ babies, we makin’ babies!” Like, wait a minute, there was just an argument with your girl and now the song is makin’ babies? It don’t make no sense.

I wanna close out talking about “Run It Back!!” with Nas, because I feel like it shows that there’s still a lot of chest-beating coming from De La Soul. There’s a lot of good vibes on this album, but also a lot of moments where you’re flexing your stuff. Do you feel like there’s still something for De La Soul to prove?

Pos: No man, it really is just the era we’re from of appreciating lyrics, how to deliver lyrics, and be blessed to be around people who treat it the same way. Like, Nas is on this album, he feels the same way. Common is on this album, he feels the same way Black Thought, Q-Tip are on this album, they feel the same way. We egg each other on, we inspire each other. I invited Nas on the track! I can’t slack, he’s Nas! They really appreciate who we are and how we do things, and it’s not like I write some nonsense.

Mase: Nas sent us two verses.

Pos: Yeah! He was like, “Yo, I did two. Which one you like? The second one’s a little tame.” I was like, “Nah man, the first one where you talk about un-smackable? You not gonna be photographable?” We’re all big kids man. We’re blessed to be here at this age, caring about what we do, the way Quincy Jones cared about how he did music, until the day he died. We just prefer quality in everything we do… I love the challenge of it.

And if I’m being quite honest when I say this — not to try to sound weird — but that’s Dave! Meaning, Dave, when he writes — I love writing not being in the studio. It’s quiet… I love silence, I can be anywhere. Dave, he loves being in the studio, the pressure of, “I gotta get this done in this session!” I love that aspect of me, adapting that from Dave.